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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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and now your host Richard Saunders waves

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hands in the air like Kermit the Frog

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thank you for that introduction yes

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welcome to the skipping zone episode

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number 583 for the 15th of December 2019

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Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia with Maynard this week

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hello Maynard

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hello there we are at the Occidental we

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are at the Occidental for the night

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skeptics in the pub where we're having a

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special guests susan gerbic and mark

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edward giving us a presentation but what

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I hear you cry what is coming up on this

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week's show yeah I can hit it outside

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there's someone just going past in a bus

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going what okay we're gonna have a

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special report about the situation in

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Samoa with measles and anti vaccinations

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with Heidi Robinson the Ross skeptic

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that's followed by a whole bunch of

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interviews you conducted at skeptic on

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2019 we've got Michelle because Marjo

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Thorley dr. Paul II and the to Nathan's

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who are doing the entertaining this was

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done at the meet-and-greet that was a

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pretty busy night we were grabbing

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people pulling them over to the corner

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there and Joe's got some great stuff to

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say

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preview prior to her talking about the

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occult just cults that's right so

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remember that podcast is called zealot

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yeah a good podcast is really really

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funny funny and enjoyable podcast and

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the round off the show and I'm delighted

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to say that Tim Mendham who you've been

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hearing on the skeptic zone now for

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about two months is now officially a

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reporter on the show and his segment is

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called

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the book of Tim the book of Tim he's

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going to be talking about the history of

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the skeptical movement and skeptical

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groups around the world that sounds a

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fairly holy experience they'll be a

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reading from the book of Tim later in

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this show it will now how did you enjoy

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the whole skeptiko experience men are

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pretty good I've been to a couple of

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ones and it was very what I like to how

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smoothly it ran how there was no

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frou-frou haha or controversy the coffee

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went well the coffee was always clean

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there was only one or two rude words

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spoken in the entire weekend it was very

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very good yeah as long as the coffee is

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good you know you know you're in for a

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good convention with good coffee but the

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crowds are rolling up here tonight it's

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good to see people are turning up its

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what Susan gonna be talking about

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tonight

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why don't we ask uh Susan Susan what are

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you going to be talking about tonight

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rubber bands and earthworms anyone could

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have told you she was going to be

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talking about that I mean really I wish

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you'd stop talking about rubber bands

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and earthworms frankly we've all had

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enough of what oh nothing you and your

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earthworms all weekend earthworms

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earthworms earthworms yeah what do you

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know buddy I'm gonna be talking about

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when psychic entertainment is no longer

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entertainment that's coming up to now

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Richard

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well that's coming up for you and me

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tonight we might try to sneak some of

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that into a future episode of The

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Skeptical but this episode is so chakra

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fool so chock-a-block I think it's time

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for you and I to run to the bar and what

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are we going to grab oh look I am going

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to grab arm something with a spot a

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minute I've got I've got the hankering

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for aspartame aspartame yeah

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all right way you and I grab aspartame

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we hope you rest of you enjoyed the

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skeptic zone but we can handle it

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Richard

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[Music]

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it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

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Robertson hello everyone

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Heidi Robertson from the Northern Rivers

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vaccination supporters here I've just

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arrived back from Melbourne having

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attended skeptic on 2019 which as usual

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was fabulous and I'm really looking

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forward to all of Menards interviews

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with people that I didn't get to speak

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with over the weekend it was also really

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nice to have a few skeptics own

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listeners come up and say hi it's

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something I really value we all feel

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like a family and it's so nice to be

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around like-minded people plus at these

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conventions I learned so much I make new

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friends and then I come back home

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feeling rejuvenated and motivated to

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keep going with the skeptical activism

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in my community so I hope to see you all

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there

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or those of you that can possibly make

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it at skeptic on 20/20 which it has now

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been announced is going to be at the

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Gold Coast in Queensland on Sunday

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morning December the 8th 2019 while I

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was in Melbourne I woke up and as is my

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routine most mornings I perused the news

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over a morning coffee lo and behold

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there is an article by Jane Henson last

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year's recipient of the sceptical

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journalism award by Australian skeptics

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Inc in which she gave a really good

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overview of the current measles epidemic

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that's been going on in Samoa since

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September this year

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we will link directly to Jane's story in

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this week's show notes and it is well

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worth the read and you can also find out

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more about the Samoan situation via a

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wikipedia page devoted to the subject

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that has just been written by the

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guerrilla skeptics on Wikipedia anyway

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after I read Jane's story in the Daily

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Telegraph on Sunday morning my brain

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told me that I should see if I could use

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the skeptic on Convention as a platform

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to make a plea for skeptics to continue

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refuting anti-vaccination rhetoric

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online when they see it the Samoan

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measles epidemic was the result of a

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perfect storm a number of factors led up

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to it but there is no doubt that one of

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the contributing factors was and still

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is the misinformation that anti

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vaccination individuals and groups were

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peddling online I had many people say to

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me over the weekend that they wanted to

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be more active in the skeptical

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community but didn't know how to be well

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this is a great way of starting to

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challenge with facts reason and logic

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the arguments of the anti-vaxxers online

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on our website in our vs info we have a

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frequently asked questions page that

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addresses many of the common arguments

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that are used against vaccination and

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provides correct information that as

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we've said before on this show is now

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accepted by the World Health

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Organization as a reliable and trusted

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source they've gone through it our

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website page by page and made sure that

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it's all up-to-date and accurate the

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organizers of the convention were kind

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enough to allow me a couple of minutes

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to speak to the audience and we'll play

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that for you now and I must thank dr.

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sue or Archie I hope I've pronounced

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that correctly one of the speakers at

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the convention and an active member of

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stop the avian

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for going with the flow when I grabbed

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her to come up on stage with me for some

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moral support

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so my name's Heidi Robertson I'm from

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the Northern Rivers vaccination support

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is based up near the Mallon bin beebowen

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yeah so we formed the group obviously

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too because we're just a bunch of

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concerned parents and people in the

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community worried about the low

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vaccination rates and of course we are

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really worried about what's happening in

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Samoa at the moment as well so I just

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wanted to just quickly update whoever's

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here that's not really aware of what's

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happening in Samoa and to make a plea

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kind of use this platform I guess to

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make a plea to you all to please

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continue fighting the misinformation

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online when you see it because social

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media it's been a great platform for us

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in the pro vaccination arena but it's

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also allowed the anti-vaccination

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movement to flourish as well and we need

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to fight them we need to fight the anti

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vaccination

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misinformation where we see it so just a

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couple of really quick facts on what's

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happening in Samoa they've got a

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population of 200,000 people in Samoa

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and since October of this year 4,200

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people have been diagnosed with measles

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140 children are being admitted to

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hospital every day the death toll is at

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almost 70 now with an average of 2

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children dying every day and the vast

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majority of those children are aged

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under the age of 4 one family has lost

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all three of their children to measles

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so why is it happening why why is the

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death toll so high and why is it

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happening there and what can we do the

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vaccination rate they've effectively got

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no herd immunity the vaccination rate

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there dropped at 31% recently that's

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lower than Mollen bimby never thought

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I'd see anywhere lower than 1 there you

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go

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what happened in June last year was that

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two Samoan nurses who are administering

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the measles mumps rubella vaccine to a

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couple of babies accidentally drew it up

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and mixed it with an expired muscle

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relaxant which ended up in the deaths of

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those two babies the Samoan government

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put a halt to the immunisation program

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and of course there was this mistrust

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then in in the immunization program but

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what you can also imagine happened is

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that the anti-vaccination movement

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swooped on this and went back see an

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injury death from the MMR vaccine which

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it wasn't it was the muscle relaxant

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within it was the mistake that the

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nurses drawing it up and they're now

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been charged with manslaughter but what

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you don't see in the media be even sorry

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in the anti-vaccination movement they

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are still saying these babies died from

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vaccine injury so that's one bit of

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misinformation that's out there taylor

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winter stone you may or may not have

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heard of she's of samoan heritage she's

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an Australian resident she's the wife of

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an NRL football player she's got no

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medical training no scientific

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background she's known as an Instagram

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influencers she's got nearly 30,000

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followers just on Instagram alone she's

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been very vocal about her beliefs in how

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dangerous vaccinations are thanks to

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gorilla skeptics on Wikipedia who have

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now written a great page a man Taylor

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and it now comes up as the first search

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result when you search her name online

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those of you who came to the skeptic on

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last you may remember to Jane Hansen the

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journalists won the award for science

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skeptical journalism yes

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Jane has just put out a piece that came

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out in the early hours of this morning

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that covers really comprehensively

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what's happening in Samoa and the

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influence of the anti-vaccination

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movement so you can its they've unlocked

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it so it's not subscriber only anyone

274
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can read that so just google that or if

275
00:12:22,010 --> 00:12:20,350
you want to read it and you can't find

276
00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:22,020
it just ask me I'll send you the link

277
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:24,640
but I just want to read out one thing

278
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:26,560
and I thought just Jane just nailed on

279
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:32,510
watch from the safety of her Australian

280
00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:35,130
home where her two unvaccinated children

281
00:12:38,690 --> 00:12:37,140
receive the benefit of ninety-five

282
00:12:42,950 --> 00:12:38,700
percent of the population being

283
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:42,960
vaccinated mrs. mrs. winter Steen is

284
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:45,360
outraged by this medical response to

285
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:47,510
save their children of Samoa

286
00:12:51,769 --> 00:12:50,370
she said Taylor said three things that

287
00:12:54,199 --> 00:12:51,779
immediately come to mind which a

288
00:12:58,100 --> 00:12:54,209
representative of Nazi Germany she did

289
00:12:59,900 --> 00:12:58,110
the Godwin forced medical interventions

290
00:13:01,850 --> 00:12:59,910
painting of household doors for

291
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:01,860
identification of particular residents

292
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:05,130
and card carrying or symbol wearing of

293
00:13:09,050 --> 00:13:07,200
individuals now the government has just

294
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:09,060
asked for people over there to put red

295
00:13:13,130 --> 00:13:11,370
flags outside their houses so that they

296
00:13:15,019 --> 00:13:13,140
could more quickly access the people

297
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:15,029
that have not yet been vaccinated but

298
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:17,370
that's Nazi Germany now apparently so

299
00:13:21,079 --> 00:13:19,050
that's all I wanted to say I won't keep

300
00:13:22,730 --> 00:13:21,089
you any longer I just wanted to

301
00:13:24,740 --> 00:13:22,740
encourage you all to please keep

302
00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:24,750
fighting this information online it's so

303
00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:27,060
important and the way that we've found

304
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:29,220
is the most effective is to do it

305
00:13:35,390 --> 00:13:33,330
politely and to try and become I often

306
00:13:39,980 --> 00:13:35,400
have to walk away from the keyboard come

307
00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:39,990
but you're not necessarily speaking to

308
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:42,390
that this anti-vaccination person you're

309
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:44,730
speaking to the hordes of social media

310
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,740
users that are reading the comments and

311
00:13:50,449 --> 00:13:48,720
trying to make up their minds about who

312
00:13:51,860 --> 00:13:50,459
is the more reasonable person and what

313
00:13:53,390 --> 00:13:51,870
the facts are they're the people that

314
00:13:56,140 --> 00:13:53,400
you're trying to reach shall I add a

315
00:14:00,760 --> 00:13:56,150
quick fact for you're arguing purposes

316
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:00,770
Somali population 200,000 ish

317
00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:03,690
vaccination rate before this outbreak 30

318
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,430
percent hunt many thousands of cases 50

319
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:11,040
to 60 deaths from measles go to another

320
00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:14,160
Pacific Island Tonga about a hundred

321
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:16,700
thousand population so roughly half

322
00:14:22,699 --> 00:14:19,230
vaccination rate eighty to ninety

323
00:14:32,319 --> 00:14:22,709
percent cases of measles in the hundreds

324
00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:35,150
so that was that thanks again to the

325
00:14:40,819 --> 00:14:37,889
organizers for allowing me to do that

326
00:14:42,379 --> 00:14:40,829
and until next time this has been Heidi

327
00:14:46,819 --> 00:14:42,389
Robertson from the Northern Rivers

328
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:46,829
vaccination supporters find us at WWE

329
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:51,420
narvi info or on Wikipedia or on

330
00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:55,290
Facebook or on Twitter or all of the

331
00:15:10,669 --> 00:14:56,870
above bye for now

332
00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:10,679
[Music]

333
00:15:16,979 --> 00:15:14,889
see ya stop hey sorry Sam have you ever

334
00:15:18,660 --> 00:15:16,989
wondered what skeptics are up to in

335
00:15:20,729 --> 00:15:18,670
countries where English is not

336
00:15:22,109 --> 00:15:20,739
necessarily the first language or are

337
00:15:23,970 --> 00:15:22,119
you interested to learn about some

338
00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:23,980
fascinating and sometimes very bizarre

339
00:15:28,410 --> 00:15:26,470
Europe related facts events or people

340
00:15:29,759 --> 00:15:28,420
from history of skepticism or do you

341
00:15:32,189 --> 00:15:29,769
just want to know who's been really

342
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:32,199
wrong lately you can find out all about

343
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:35,290
that and more on the award-winning show

344
00:15:41,939 --> 00:15:39,850
the ESP the European sceptics podcast so

345
00:15:45,629 --> 00:15:41,949
where can people find the show you can

346
00:15:47,850 --> 00:15:45,639
find it online at the ESP dot EU but you

347
00:15:50,579 --> 00:15:47,860
can also follow us on twitter at es

348
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:50,589
podcast and d'ascoyne you or like us on

349
00:15:55,889 --> 00:15:52,929
Facebook oh and you can contact the show

350
00:15:58,169 --> 00:15:55,899
by sending an email to info at the ESP

351
00:16:00,329 --> 00:15:58,179
dot EU if you want to subscribe do a

352
00:16:03,569 --> 00:16:00,339
quick search for the European skeptics

353
00:16:06,299 --> 00:16:03,579
podcast on soundcloud iTunes stitcher or

354
00:16:10,139 --> 00:16:06,309
whatever you get your podcast the

355
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:10,149
European sceptics podcast the real ESP

356
00:16:17,530 --> 00:16:11,600
experience

357
00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:25,640
I don't know why you can't believe

358
00:16:25,650 --> 00:16:29,369
[Music]

359
00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:34,300
here's Maynard spooky action at a

360
00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:43,260
yes you can hear soft acoustic guitar

361
00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:45,190
strains in the background and looking

362
00:16:49,740 --> 00:16:48,040
around the room I can see only two or

363
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:49,750
three neckbeard so the neckbeard count

364
00:16:52,819 --> 00:16:51,480
is fairly low

365
00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:52,829
it is the delete and pay for the big

366
00:16:57,379 --> 00:16:56,339
skeptic on weekend and it's gonna be big

367
00:16:59,540 --> 00:16:57,389
about a hundred people in the room

368
00:17:01,009 --> 00:16:59,550
already like I said a bit of acoustic

369
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:01,019
music going on last time they were here

370
00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:03,090
they had a harp or something like that

371
00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:09,079
[Music]

372
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:12,120
I'm next to Michelle because my which is

373
00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:14,760
like a right no that sounds like someone

374
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:16,760
who have a large garden in England

375
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:19,650
frisian actually oh wow

376
00:17:24,650 --> 00:17:23,490
sorry like cows garden too how nervous a

377
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:24,660
year because we're just having the

378
00:17:27,199 --> 00:17:25,919
meet-and-greet there's a whole weekend

379
00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:27,209
ahead what could go wrong

380
00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:30,600
what's your role my role has been to

381
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:33,960
really be behind the scenes I'm not

382
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:34,710
nervous

383
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,140
I've been organized it's all running

384
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:39,840
beautifully to play I'm actually excited

385
00:17:43,610 --> 00:17:41,970
and really happy you've only been gone

386
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:43,620
three hours I mean you could be speaking

387
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:45,929
a bit early here no not at all not at

388
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:48,090
all we you might have been going three

389
00:17:52,820 --> 00:17:50,220
hours we've been going months I am like

390
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:52,830
feeling totally in control of who those

391
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:54,510
guys on stage says in purple that

392
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,950
they're certainly there selling some

393
00:17:59,360 --> 00:17:58,080
complicated concepts to a roomful of

394
00:18:02,720 --> 00:17:59,370
people having a drink they're doing well

395
00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:02,730
definitely conspiracy of wine is a band

396
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:08,220
name and then we have Vicki doing her

397
00:18:14,930 --> 00:18:12,530
solo act too and she is brittle Sonia

398
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:14,940
what is the most difficult thing with

399
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:16,290
organising one of these conferences

400
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:17,370
because there's people at home going

401
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:19,679
sure I could do that what's the one

402
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,970
thing you wouldn't think god that's oh

403
00:18:24,650 --> 00:18:22,160
my god I can't let this happen

404
00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:24,660
what's a difficult thing that you

405
00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:26,100
wouldn't think of when you're sitting at

406
00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:32,150
that's that person right now they out

407
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,160
there game conference in that yeah the

408
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:38,400
thing that I suppose I didn't expect was

409
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:41,130
that it was actually quite hard to

410
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,049
liaise with people and get all the

411
00:18:47,419 --> 00:18:45,360
information you need together I was

412
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:47,429
writing the program and I was sitting

413
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:50,250
very ready to go but to actually get

414
00:18:55,250 --> 00:18:52,860
everything to come together took longer

415
00:18:57,049 --> 00:18:55,260
than I thought and was harder it's a

416
00:18:58,669 --> 00:18:57,059
simple question is what is your talk

417
00:19:00,260 --> 00:18:58,679
about could you give us a paragraph and

418
00:19:01,940 --> 00:19:00,270
a photo of yourself and you're there

419
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:01,950
waiting that's what you were saying to

420
00:19:04,970 --> 00:19:03,480
them and they were taking their sweet

421
00:19:06,919 --> 00:19:04,980
time getting back to you about it

422
00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:06,929
the thing was I didn't I suppose have

423
00:19:11,539 --> 00:19:09,660
direct contact so I would have to go

424
00:19:14,659 --> 00:19:11,549
through my people who went through their

425
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:14,669
people to the person using spoons yes

426
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:16,830
difficult spoons here I think it's the

427
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:17,970
indirect

428
00:19:23,149 --> 00:19:20,129
right things that and also you don't

429
00:19:25,220 --> 00:19:23,159
have the big picture necessarily in mind

430
00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:25,230
you know what your job is but you don't

431
00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:27,480
know what everybody else's job is and

432
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:29,700
things can be happening that you don't

433
00:19:35,779 --> 00:19:33,120
know about so yeah it's all about good

434
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:35,789
communication and it's direct

435
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:38,250
communication as possible over time so

436
00:19:41,149 --> 00:19:39,690
you'll be doing a lot of running around

437
00:19:42,590 --> 00:19:41,159
tomorrow cuz we've got the green room

438
00:19:44,389 --> 00:19:42,600
and the stage so you'll be getting at

439
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,399
doing good cardio between those two

440
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:46,559
tomorrow I believe me personally not I

441
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:49,490
have this fantastic team of volunteers

442
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:52,200
20 people who are going to look after

443
00:19:56,419 --> 00:19:53,940
everybody beautifully they're all

444
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,429
wearing bike shorts because they're

445
00:20:00,590 --> 00:19:58,080
going to be running around a lot well

446
00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:00,600
hopefully not because they are organized

447
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:03,750
in such a way and in such a number that

448
00:20:08,419 --> 00:20:05,250
they will get to see a lot of the

449
00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:08,429
convention we hope while really covering

450
00:20:13,310 --> 00:20:10,769
the ground bases so we're hoping to be

451
00:20:15,619 --> 00:20:13,320
super organized super efficient and

452
00:20:17,509 --> 00:20:15,629
provide an excellent time for everyone

453
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:17,519
including all our volunteers well you

454
00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:19,110
take advantage of the fact now too and

455
00:20:23,299 --> 00:20:20,820
send the conspiracy one guys out there

456
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:23,309
whenever absolutely talk to them about

457
00:20:28,530 --> 00:20:25,289
the music yep and they're going to give

458
00:20:34,220 --> 00:20:28,540
you the correct and model dance

459
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:36,480
over here at the meet and greet at the

460
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:38,799
Dan O'Connell the pup named after the

461
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:41,290
man who first was the first guy to slam

462
00:20:44,669 --> 00:20:43,330
the door in a Jehovah's Witnesses face

463
00:20:46,020 --> 00:20:44,679
when he came around have you heard the

464
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:46,030
word he said I certainly haven't slammed

465
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:47,410
the door that right we're naming the pub

466
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:49,570
after him and we have someone here who's

467
00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:51,280
doing a bit of a talk over the weekend

468
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:53,320
who've we got Joey Thornley

469
00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:54,640
it's lovely to see you again I think we

470
00:20:58,260 --> 00:20:56,230
haven't met for a little while no a

471
00:21:00,360 --> 00:20:58,270
little yes yes but you know always in my

472
00:21:01,620 --> 00:21:00,370
heart and you're doing a talk which you

473
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:01,630
haven't done before so has that mean you

474
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,770
a bit nervous right now you're a bit

475
00:21:07,049 --> 00:21:04,480
clenched up more than you should be not

476
00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:07,059
really well I am I'm gonna admit to a

477
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:09,630
very high constant level of clench but

478
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:12,640
it's my talk is about cults and even

479
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:13,510
though I haven't done this particular

480
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:16,720
one before I can speak endlessly about

481
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:18,370
cults because there's just so many

482
00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:20,590
stories so pretty relaxed about the

483
00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:22,990
horrible subject I'm a bit of a fan of

484
00:21:29,370 --> 00:21:26,169
the how to heroin how to heretic podcast

485
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:29,380
and each week they have one on there and

486
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:31,090
they're not running short of them either

487
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:33,490
no I thought I would run out I thought

488
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:35,590
yeah maybe it'll be a 20 episode series

489
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:39,090
but no these I keep discovering more

490
00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:41,110
definition on it could you technically

491
00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:45,340
say that the Catholicism or Islam was a

492
00:21:49,289 --> 00:21:47,950
cult or not well I think that's one of

493
00:21:50,610 --> 00:21:49,299
the reasons it's kind of hard to lock

494
00:21:52,830 --> 00:21:50,620
down the definition of a cult because

495
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:52,840
mainstream religions wouldn't escape if

496
00:21:56,490 --> 00:21:54,820
you look at the lifestyles and the

497
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:56,500
restrictions and their lack of autonomy

498
00:22:00,180 --> 00:21:58,690
that say Catholic priests and nuns have

499
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:00,190
and the fact that they even have to wear

500
00:22:04,110 --> 00:22:02,110
particular things and can't marry then

501
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:04,120
it's really really difficult to

502
00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:05,770
distinguish between a religion and a

503
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:07,390
cult then again you can also look at

504
00:22:11,850 --> 00:22:09,010
Thermomix and think yeah that's probably

505
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:11,860
one too so it's the shunning thing

506
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:14,500
because yes those religions shun but you

507
00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:16,240
know who jobs wouldn't save you good

508
00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:18,190
shunning the Mormons they've got

509
00:22:22,890 --> 00:22:20,350
shunning but is there cold bug because

510
00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:22,900
that is no no no that's a religion they

511
00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:24,190
say but it everyone gets their own

512
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:25,900
planet that's a bit that's a pretty good

513
00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:28,240
deal yeah although it would be lonely it

514
00:22:33,259 --> 00:22:30,040
depends where you put this slider I mean

515
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:33,269
you can I've got my own kind

516
00:22:37,739 --> 00:22:36,070
red flags and one of them a massive one

517
00:22:39,239 --> 00:22:37,749
is a lack of autonomy someone that takes

518
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:39,249
away your ability to make your own

519
00:22:45,090 --> 00:22:42,610
choices and also someone that swindles

520
00:22:46,739 --> 00:22:45,100
money out of you but I'm mostly I'm

521
00:22:48,659 --> 00:22:46,749
mostly just I love looking at the

522
00:22:50,639 --> 00:22:48,669
leaders because they're the narcissists

523
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:50,649
in the picture and they're the most fun

524
00:22:54,509 --> 00:22:52,330
to lampoon because I think the followers

525
00:22:58,499 --> 00:22:54,519
they've just made a couple of decisions

526
00:23:00,570 --> 00:22:58,509
that all of us make similar ones in our

527
00:23:04,379 --> 00:23:00,580
lives but it's the leaders who were the

528
00:23:08,249 --> 00:23:04,389
narcissist power-hungry often holding a

529
00:23:09,659 --> 00:23:08,259
fast grudge people and in any time

530
00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:09,669
you're looking at the history of the

531
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,340
site Church of Scientology what I really

532
00:23:15,419 --> 00:23:13,840
enjoy watching it's not even the

533
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,429
listening I enjoy watching whenever they

534
00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:17,440
have their their annual warm their big

535
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:20,049
annual as you'll notice from I think

536
00:23:24,749 --> 00:23:22,529
when l ron hubbard was still alive the

537
00:23:27,180 --> 00:23:24,759
drawing and photo of him gets

538
00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:27,190
increasingly bigger and the way it is

539
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:29,230
now I think he's photo takes up the

540
00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:30,850
entire of the backstage where initially

541
00:23:34,409 --> 00:23:32,350
it was just a very tasteful sort of

542
00:23:35,879 --> 00:23:34,419
portrait on stage it just got bigger I

543
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:35,889
really liked that in fact they may have

544
00:23:39,899 --> 00:23:37,450
to get a bigger hall just please

545
00:23:42,330 --> 00:23:39,909
painting and and his ego I mean I think

546
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:42,340
the photo just enlarges exponentially

547
00:23:45,659 --> 00:23:44,110
with his ego but the first time I sell

548
00:23:46,830 --> 00:23:45,669
footage of one of the Scientology

549
00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:46,840
conferences I thought it was

550
00:23:55,139 --> 00:23:49,240
photoshopped because that is it can't be

551
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:55,149
that big glossy stuff but I it's the

552
00:24:00,480 --> 00:23:57,970
only way in Scientology videos it's the

553
00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:00,490
only way that I can watch Tom Cruise

554
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:02,230
it's his best actor ever

555
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:04,450
and they and they played the sort of a

556
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:06,730
generic Mission Impossible music behind

557
00:24:10,769 --> 00:24:09,129
him too and it's like okay because they

558
00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:10,779
do high production values over there I

559
00:24:16,019 --> 00:24:12,190
thought that music might be a bit better

560
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:16,029
well my my day job is in music copyright

561
00:24:19,619 --> 00:24:18,100
so you know they're changing a couple of

562
00:24:22,350 --> 00:24:19,629
notes there just so they don't have to

563
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:22,360
have to clear it hey have I got

564
00:24:28,049 --> 00:24:25,200
something for you that's where I work

565
00:24:29,369 --> 00:24:28,059
the heirs podcast license is going by

566
00:24:30,659 --> 00:24:29,379
the way - I thought that was very good

567
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:30,669
that was a good thing that you offered

568
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:33,760
them yes and they're great I know I'm

569
00:24:38,130 --> 00:24:35,890
it's my housemate writes all the music

570
00:24:41,820 --> 00:24:38,140
in my podcast so we've got a sweet deal

571
00:24:44,190 --> 00:24:41,830
Oh talk more later about that and so

572
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:44,200
what so how did you trim it down for

573
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:45,610
like a one-hour talk how long have you

574
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:47,170
got half an hour

575
00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:49,510
Wow it was difficult I'm gonna be

576
00:24:54,510 --> 00:24:51,700
speaking faster than I ever have before

577
00:24:56,940 --> 00:24:54,520
it's a photo opportunity in my life okay

578
00:24:58,860 --> 00:24:56,950
yes and cramming it all in because I

579
00:25:01,050 --> 00:24:58,870
couldn't I could easily do a three-day

580
00:25:03,090 --> 00:25:01,060
talk on my two hundred favorite weed

581
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,100
cult stories but I have trimmed it down

582
00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:04,720
look I might double up on this question

583
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:06,340
but if you recommittal do you recommend

584
00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:08,980
I join I mean look you spend all your

585
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:10,660
time telling not to join the mots the

586
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:12,490
one you said yeah gotta get in on this I

587
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:14,320
mean come on I do like the what are the

588
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:16,360
ones that look great in their swimmers

589
00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:18,010
when they're doing the Mardi Gras and

590
00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:20,230
there are the Raelians the Raelians look

591
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:21,460
like there might be fun

592
00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:23,470
true but there's an even better one that

593
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:25,480
still you still get to have sex with

594
00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:30,010
aliens but it's you Nereus because they

595
00:25:36,450 --> 00:25:33,880
love aliens but they put the costuming

596
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:36,460
of the Raelians to shame that's right

597
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,650
because it's all 50s sort of art deco

598
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:41,200
stuff isn't it and the leader who she's

599
00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:44,110
one of them no unfortunately passed but

600
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:47,920
she was the costume Queen and I will be

601
00:25:53,250 --> 00:25:50,470
including and a magnificent picture of

602
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:53,260
her in my talk but really the worst

603
00:25:58,680 --> 00:25:55,600
thing she ever did was the Ethel Merman

604
00:26:00,930 --> 00:25:58,690
cult leader look she's an exact mixer in

605
00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:00,940
bewitched the aunt and the mother she's

606
00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:03,340
the exact midpoint between those two

607
00:26:08,220 --> 00:26:06,100
Endora and Samantha that's right and the

608
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:08,230
costuming was young kalapa cult know I

609
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:12,320
like him it's never far away

610
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:13,850
well that's great look I'll probably

611
00:26:17,470 --> 00:26:15,770
bump in you over the weekend so how do

612
00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:17,480
you relax before a talk by the way when

613
00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:20,540
you go on I don't I'm more awkward in

614
00:26:24,850 --> 00:26:22,520
this room of people I don't know that I

615
00:26:28,060 --> 00:26:24,860
am talking to a rooms and one of those

616
00:26:29,860 --> 00:26:28,070
lucky people that I'm quite awkward in

617
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:29,870
social situations but I'm absolutely

618
00:26:33,460 --> 00:26:31,850
fine when I talk and talking about a

619
00:26:35,890 --> 00:26:33,470
subject that I am absolutely obsessed

620
00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:35,900
with that's easy and tell us where we

621
00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:37,550
can find your podcast so people who

622
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:39,020
aren't here this week and can catch up

623
00:26:45,130 --> 00:26:40,490
on what you've been doing it's called

624
00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:45,140
zealots and it's on everything so so

625
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:47,060
what about the cult of Kate Moss for

626
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:49,970
example the cult of the supermodel is

627
00:26:59,050 --> 00:26:55,670
that still a cult or not look she says

628
00:27:01,810 --> 00:26:59,060
nothing nothing tastes as good as skinny

629
00:27:04,150 --> 00:27:01,820
feels and I think everyone in Jonestown

630
00:27:07,630 --> 00:27:04,160
would agree that in particular flavor

631
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:07,640
age look that one up people that are

632
00:27:10,990 --> 00:27:09,710
rich and shake in his head lighten up

633
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:11,000
mate it's about cogs

634
00:27:16,879 --> 00:27:13,110
I said thoughts

635
00:27:19,139 --> 00:27:16,889
[Music]

636
00:27:22,919 --> 00:27:19,149
it's busy here in the beer garden whose

637
00:27:26,729 --> 00:27:22,929
we got it's a doctor Pauli from the Gold

638
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:26,739
Coast skeptics and you're talking this

639
00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:30,399
weekend no you talk look what you now

640
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:32,200
secret little part of the bee garden

641
00:27:35,759 --> 00:27:33,730
here and if you had a garden would you

642
00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:35,769
and you could grow any fictional kind of

643
00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:37,480
thing a beer garden is nice to grow but

644
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:38,860
what would you grow in your garden a

645
00:27:44,369 --> 00:27:41,970
wine garden I think they called grapes

646
00:27:46,109 --> 00:27:44,379
and how excited are you to be doing

647
00:27:51,779 --> 00:27:46,119
something here at skeptic on this year

648
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:51,789
yeah a little bit no no nervous

649
00:27:57,810 --> 00:27:54,730
excitement yeah it's really nice not

650
00:28:00,690 --> 00:27:57,820
done talked before I've not spoken at

651
00:28:03,149 --> 00:28:00,700
skeptics before you know been to a

652
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:03,159
couple of skeptic cons obviously run the

653
00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:06,369
gold coast skeptics up where it's a hell

654
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:10,600
of a lot warmer yeah look tell you what

655
00:28:14,249 --> 00:28:12,609
what what is look Melbourne me but what

656
00:28:16,139 --> 00:28:14,259
the hell is going on let me tell you if

657
00:28:18,539 --> 00:28:16,149
we get here and it's like it hasn't even

658
00:28:20,999 --> 00:28:18,549
hit crack 20 yet has it well given the

659
00:28:24,210 --> 00:28:21,009
rest of the places on fire good to

660
00:28:27,389 --> 00:28:24,220
balanced and by the way what is the big

661
00:28:28,979 --> 00:28:27,399
big challenge for the Gold Coast kept

662
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:28,989
examine what are you hunting down and

663
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:30,369
looking at what what's getting the

664
00:28:34,859 --> 00:28:32,609
skeptical goat there on the Gold Coast

665
00:28:36,989 --> 00:28:34,869
well I guess a couple of things I think

666
00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:36,999
the one that's probably bothering me the

667
00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:39,220
most and I'm really not sure how to push

668
00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:42,600
it forward is the can both air appease

669
00:28:54,269 --> 00:28:50,190
I'm sorry I hit me when I can bow is

670
00:28:56,669 --> 00:28:54,279
they do a little ceremony where they get

671
00:28:58,739 --> 00:28:56,679
a green tree frog and they basically

672
00:29:01,099 --> 00:28:58,749
torture the tree frog and get it really

673
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:01,109
anxious and scared and it secretes these

674
00:29:06,269 --> 00:29:03,369
expressions which have a bit of an

675
00:29:09,299 --> 00:29:06,279
opioid base to it and then they put it

676
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:09,309
on a stick they burn your skin where

677
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:10,809
you've got your limp sort of coming

678
00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:12,609
through and then they put that stick

679
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:14,409
with the secretions on there and it's

680
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:16,450
like a purging ceremony it's

681
00:29:21,509 --> 00:29:18,850
extraordinarily unsafe and we're just

682
00:29:22,979 --> 00:29:21,519
related to a DMT experience or something

683
00:29:24,419 --> 00:29:22,989
like that the way you were saying it was

684
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:24,429
an opioid so it's not really a

685
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:27,050
psychedelic no it's just it's a

686
00:29:31,630 --> 00:29:29,450
well from as far as I understand it's

687
00:29:32,890 --> 00:29:31,640
it's like a basically if they just vomit

688
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:32,900
everywhere and apparently that makes you

689
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:34,310
feel better

690
00:29:38,530 --> 00:29:37,130
there was the recent death it feels

691
00:29:40,660 --> 00:29:38,540
better when you stop a bit like it he

692
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,670
hitting your head against a wall no I

693
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:42,320
think I think that the issue for me was

694
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:44,930
that we notified the Queensland Health

695
00:29:48,430 --> 00:29:46,730
Ombudsman and they wrote us a letter

696
00:29:49,780 --> 00:29:48,440
back so this is late last year early

697
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:49,790
this year they wrote back saying God

698
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:51,590
don't worry about it we don't think this

699
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:54,290
is a problem and then not a month or two

700
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:56,090
later there was a local dancing

701
00:30:01,390 --> 00:29:58,240
Mullumbimby so just over the border

702
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:01,400
during one of those Campos ceremonies

703
00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:04,480
and and she died as a result of the the

704
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:06,830
toxins so and from what you explaining

705
00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:09,200
it's absorbed through a cut and cut in

706
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:10,580
the body so you're not taking it orally

707
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:13,160
right it's called non sterile injection

708
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:16,730
and it's extremely dangerous yeah that's

709
00:30:21,550 --> 00:30:19,610
getting really be getting you go and

710
00:30:23,290 --> 00:30:21,560
also because it's done on a small scale

711
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:23,300
and in people's houses it's going to be

712
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:26,450
very difficult to stop yeah I try to ask

713
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:28,490
one of the women where were like you

714
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:29,810
know she keeps sending me all these

715
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:31,850
posts to come along and I was trying to

716
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:33,410
ask her where do you hold these

717
00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:36,290
ceremonies and you know as these things

718
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:38,360
usually are very secretive don't tell

719
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:40,370
you until the night before so you can't

720
00:30:46,510 --> 00:30:43,730
basically shut them down so it's really

721
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:46,520
concerning and I've you know we've we've

722
00:30:51,150 --> 00:30:48,890
run around on in bed bright and that

723
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:51,160
sort of thing and reported them and they

724
00:30:55,690 --> 00:30:54,170
haven't gone down so it's really

725
00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:55,700
concerning you might not be able to

726
00:31:01,690 --> 00:30:58,370
answer this but is the is the vomiting

727
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:01,700
coming from a poisoning effect or an

728
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:03,470
overdose of an opiate effect what do you

729
00:31:08,140 --> 00:31:05,210
think's causing it so if it was an

730
00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:08,150
overdose for an opioid it would be

731
00:31:13,150 --> 00:31:10,940
depression of the diaphragm however

732
00:31:15,490 --> 00:31:13,160
opioids do cause an emetic effect of

733
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:15,500
vomiting effect so that would be that

734
00:31:19,930 --> 00:31:17,810
sort of they activate the brain the

735
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:19,940
brain stemming calls you to vomit so I

736
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:22,010
would suspect it's from that kind of

737
00:31:26,140 --> 00:31:24,170
effect so they just from the the opioid

738
00:31:27,790 --> 00:31:26,150
type drug you know this isn't something

739
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:27,800
that was originally an indigenous

740
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:29,510
practice in Australia had come from

741
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:31,490
South America or the continent where's

742
00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:33,650
it come from I think now you're testing

743
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:35,460
my memory

744
00:31:39,050 --> 00:31:37,110
everybody there will be an exam at the

745
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:39,060
end of the show and we just we're just

746
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:41,610
shooting the breeze I'm pretty sure it's

747
00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:44,130
from from the Amazons from South America

748
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:47,790
from my memory but I'd need to verify

749
00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:49,710
that so I'm pologize if I got that one

750
00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:51,150
it sounds like you've got your work cut

751
00:31:55,220 --> 00:31:53,640
out for you there on the Gold Coast he's

752
00:31:57,050 --> 00:31:55,230
always gonna think of a some it was

753
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:57,060
multi-level marketing scam or something

754
00:32:00,500 --> 00:31:58,320
because there it's known for that in

755
00:32:02,780 --> 00:32:00,510
that area as well yeah look I can't say

756
00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:02,790
that we've been overly active in terms

757
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,270
of the grassroots activism but because

758
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:08,640
we're still quite small in our numbers

759
00:32:13,820 --> 00:32:10,860
I'm but we're getting there slowly so

760
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:13,830
watch this space and just an

761
00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:14,850
off-the-cuff question because you

762
00:32:18,050 --> 00:32:16,020
probably do know what's what's the

763
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:18,060
vaccination rate looking like in that

764
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:20,130
area is it similar to the northern New

765
00:32:24,410 --> 00:32:21,930
South Wales or is it a bit better I

766
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:24,420
think in the Gold Coast area

767
00:32:30,650 --> 00:32:26,450
specifically it's a little bit better

768
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:30,660
but if you go to certain areas just in

769
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:32,940
the north north rivers which is not that

770
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:35,850
far away it's it's they're pretty pretty

771
00:32:39,380 --> 00:32:38,010
pretty bad and where can we catch up

772
00:32:40,550 --> 00:32:39,390
with the Gold Coast skeptics and the

773
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:40,560
kind of stuff you'll be presenting over

774
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:45,210
the weekend online online so we have a

775
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:49,500
website GC skeptics calm and so we put

776
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:52,170
up all we podcast all of our gold coast

777
00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:54,090
skeptics in the pub events so you can

778
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:56,070
see all that stuff there I don't know

779
00:32:59,570 --> 00:32:57,450
that we'll be podcasting are the

780
00:33:01,130 --> 00:32:59,580
weekend's event but if anything comes

781
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:01,140
out from the Australian skeptics and we

782
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:03,210
can link to it it'll definitely be up

783
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:05,010
there and I'm you can sign up to our

784
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:06,360
newsletter so you can get all that

785
00:33:12,860 --> 00:33:08,310
information once a month we don't have

786
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:12,870
time to do what any busy people

787
00:33:21,020 --> 00:33:17,210
[Music]

788
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:21,030
someone now is a skeptical musician from

789
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:23,250
Brisbane now is it you only work one day

790
00:33:28,610 --> 00:33:25,410
a month or what goes on there in that

791
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:28,620
scene I wish I'm usually working a lot

792
00:33:31,370 --> 00:33:29,370
more often than that

793
00:33:32,780 --> 00:33:31,380
oh yeah it's better to say yeah because

794
00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:32,790
I'm just wondering because a lot of

795
00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:34,620
stuff you do I don't think a bit

796
00:33:38,270 --> 00:33:36,750
actually I should shut up how is the

797
00:33:39,289 --> 00:33:38,280
Brisbane music scene I haven't been

798
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:39,299
there for a while

799
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:41,760
it's quite good and I'm doing my best to

800
00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:43,890
make my own little corner of it and get

801
00:33:47,539 --> 00:33:45,660
my sceptical music out there to some new

802
00:33:49,460 --> 00:33:47,549
listeners so it'll be the normal venue

803
00:33:51,890 --> 00:33:49,470
you play in Brisbane I play all around

804
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,900
but I've got a big show coming up about

805
00:33:55,580 --> 00:33:53,760
a week from now which is going to be a

806
00:33:57,740 --> 00:33:55,590
big single launch but I'm really looking

807
00:34:00,140 --> 00:33:57,750
forward to and under the conspiracy of

808
00:34:01,789 --> 00:34:00,150
one label it is yeah I'll have my full

809
00:34:04,340 --> 00:34:01,799
band there that night as well

810
00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:04,350
conspiracy of one is essentially my solo

811
00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:07,500
project so I can do it as a soloist I

812
00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:09,720
can do it as a band depends on the size

813
00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:13,230
of the show and what about titles and

814
00:34:17,210 --> 00:34:15,030
concepts you normally explore in your

815
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:17,220
songs all kinds of things

816
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:19,790
I've got songs about intelligent design

817
00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:24,720
looking at miracle cures making fun of

818
00:34:30,250 --> 00:34:27,030
quacks I've got one making fun of star

819
00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:30,260
signs all kinds of things what is the

820
00:34:33,409 --> 00:34:32,070
sceptical thing that really gets your

821
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:33,419
goat everyone's got their one thing that

822
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:35,369
annoys them the most some people - it's

823
00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:37,169
an evac sirs because it could be dozer

824
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:39,060
dangerous but some people it's star

825
00:34:41,899 --> 00:34:40,530
science because it's really annoying in

826
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:41,909
the office when people go on about it

827
00:34:44,659 --> 00:34:43,169
there's lots of different ranges of

828
00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:44,669
things that annoy them what about your

829
00:34:49,220 --> 00:34:46,220
wife

830
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:49,230
I'd like to take potshots at a lot of

831
00:34:52,669 --> 00:34:50,490
them but I think the one for me is

832
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:52,679
alternative medicine because I've seen

833
00:34:59,570 --> 00:34:55,260
it destroy lives it's a broad Church -

834
00:35:02,060 --> 00:34:59,580
it is and if I can do my own little bit

835
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:02,070
in helping people not get caught in the

836
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:05,970
traps of it try and avoid it then it's

837
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:08,760
worth it I've even got sucked into the

838
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,830
whole ear candling thing once I had a

839
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:12,480
bit of an ear problem and I cancelled

840
00:35:16,070 --> 00:35:13,920
myself the night before I went to the

841
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:16,080
ear nose and throat guy and he took one

842
00:35:19,609 --> 00:35:17,730
look at my other next day Neiman what

843
00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:19,619
are you been doing and I said well it

844
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:21,630
looks like someone's lit a campfire in

845
00:35:25,050 --> 00:35:23,490
your ear he said never do that again so

846
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:25,060
yeah I've got it from the year

847
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:28,210
No yeah so where do you go for your

848
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:29,770
inspiration do you pick up a copy of

849
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,170
something like new dawn or the natural

850
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,720
hero or the local free magazine it's on

851
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:36,160
yeah where do you get will you go to the

852
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:38,830
I want the crystal shop the local where

853
00:35:41,130 --> 00:35:40,000
do you get your inspiration because

854
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:41,140
there's so much out there

855
00:35:45,930 --> 00:35:43,450
I get exposed to plenty of the

856
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:45,940
alternative and whoo things through my

857
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:48,910
usual channels and then for my skeptical

858
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:50,290
diet I listen to a lot of podcasts

859
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:54,010
including this very podcast alright and

860
00:35:57,900 --> 00:35:56,530
read it do a lot of reading online a bit

861
00:35:59,280 --> 00:35:57,910
of a fan of George Karev I like the way

862
00:36:02,520 --> 00:35:59,290
he just turns the music out on the

863
00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:02,530
geologic podcast yes it's I can say that

864
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,540
George is frankly annoying the way

865
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:06,880
Georgia rap just turns out music seems

866
00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:09,310
to do everything rather well it is

867
00:36:13,470 --> 00:36:11,080
annoying any runs for 20 miles

868
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:13,480
I think his motto is kind of good and

869
00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:15,280
for someone who works on their own often

870
00:36:18,570 --> 00:36:17,320
the more you do the more you end up

871
00:36:19,890 --> 00:36:18,580
doing and I think that's true because

872
00:36:22,860 --> 00:36:19,900
you just make time for stuff when you

873
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:22,870
want to do it yes oh I could do with 12

874
00:36:27,150 --> 00:36:23,920
hours sleep right now

875
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:27,160
well a nap out the back and where can

876
00:36:30,110 --> 00:36:29,050
people find you online your music find

877
00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:30,120
out when your show is going to be

878
00:36:34,410 --> 00:36:32,380
performing in Brisbane and where what

879
00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:34,420
where can we find you absolutely on any

880
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:36,040
of the social media I'm on there as

881
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:38,560
conspiracy of one my website is

882
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:41,290
conspiracy of one solocom and that has

883
00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:43,210
links to everything else cool because

884
00:36:47,070 --> 00:36:45,550
you're going to put the show on youtube

885
00:36:48,930 --> 00:36:47,080
or a few tracks on youtube when you do

886
00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:48,940
it yeah I have some music released as

887
00:36:53,220 --> 00:36:51,700
well on all the digital services

888
00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:53,230
good luck it's a great time to be doing

889
00:36:56,849 --> 00:36:54,700
this kind of thing it's a pity this just

890
00:37:02,819 --> 00:36:56,859
got more money in the night eventually

891
00:37:07,620 --> 00:37:04,949
yes freshmen Stadium a play that I get

892
00:37:08,819 --> 00:37:07,630
it correct yes now how do you find is

893
00:37:10,799 --> 00:37:08,829
all why here you you part of the

894
00:37:12,809 --> 00:37:10,809
Melbourne skeptics anyway I've been to

895
00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:12,819
the skeptics cafe a few times so the

896
00:37:17,279 --> 00:37:14,920
Carleton meetups right and I was part of

897
00:37:20,099 --> 00:37:17,289
her songs of science event which they

898
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:20,109
the other Nathan organized as conspiracy

899
00:37:24,839 --> 00:37:23,049
of one in June this year and some of the

900
00:37:27,359 --> 00:37:24,849
skeptics came along and liked their

901
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:27,369
stuff and invited to see us an ayat the

902
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:29,729
whole package the three st. performance

903
00:37:34,589 --> 00:37:33,160
on our on stage now oh yeah and how are

904
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,599
they going I mean obviously you guys did

905
00:37:39,269 --> 00:37:36,640
better but how are they going well they

906
00:37:40,709 --> 00:37:39,279
started well oh because your stuff is

907
00:37:42,689 --> 00:37:40,719
worthy like I said have songs about

908
00:37:44,370 --> 00:37:42,699
belief and go to the gaps and I'm this

909
00:37:46,529 --> 00:37:44,380
thing I'm going everyone shut up and

910
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:46,539
have a listen yeah yeah it is it a

911
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:49,209
difficult the audience I think a few

912
00:37:52,949 --> 00:37:50,890
people came to listen and if you most

913
00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:52,959
came to mingle so they're doing what

914
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:54,670
they want and you going along to the

915
00:37:58,140 --> 00:37:56,170
conference over the weekend it's yeah

916
00:37:59,160 --> 00:37:58,150
birthdays okay what talk is your when

917
00:38:01,709 --> 00:37:59,170
everyone's got their own little talk

918
00:38:03,630 --> 00:38:01,719
I've had the cult action sounds good the

919
00:38:05,279 --> 00:38:03,640
Skippy squad the University and good you

920
00:38:08,279 --> 00:38:05,289
got your own I love the s to you I'm

921
00:38:09,419 --> 00:38:08,289
keen on their show and the seance sounds

922
00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:09,429
very interesting here mark

923
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:12,609
Gary spooky and scary yeah I mean if

924
00:38:15,749 --> 00:38:14,529
you're good could take away pepsin it

925
00:38:19,410 --> 00:38:15,759
might inspire you to write some music

926
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:19,420
for sale yeah have a good time at the

927
00:38:22,319 --> 00:38:20,650
wicket and where can we catch you online

928
00:38:24,449 --> 00:38:22,329
to hear your music and guilt you're up

929
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:24,459
to Tube channel and a Facebook page and

930
00:38:30,660 --> 00:38:28,689
a flea in a th le i th you can find me

931
00:38:32,219 --> 00:38:30,670
on those media thank you and we'll put a

932
00:38:44,009 --> 00:38:32,229
link to that in the show notes as well

933
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:46,690
hi I'm Darrin McKee one of the hosts of

934
00:38:50,349 --> 00:38:48,650
the reality check each week my co-host

935
00:38:51,970 --> 00:38:50,359
and I explore a range of controversies

936
00:38:53,470 --> 00:38:51,980
and curiosities using science and

937
00:38:55,359 --> 00:38:53,480
critical thinking you can find us on

938
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:55,369
iTunes your favorite podcasting platform

939
00:38:58,539 --> 00:38:56,960
and on Facebook by searching for the

940
00:39:01,029 --> 00:38:58,549
reality check or by following us on

941
00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:01,039
Twitter at TRC underscore podcast until

942
00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:02,720
then keep an open mind but not so open

943
00:39:19,029 --> 00:39:12,859
your brain falls out and now a reading

944
00:39:21,579 --> 00:39:19,039
from the book of Tim with Tim Mendham hi

945
00:39:24,249 --> 00:39:21,589
my name is Tim Mendham I'm the executive

946
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:24,259
officer of Australian skeptics and also

947
00:39:30,039 --> 00:39:27,890
editor of our magazine the skeptic today

948
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:30,049
I'll be looking at skeptics and

949
00:39:34,210 --> 00:39:32,450
skeptical groups most of you might have

950
00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:34,220
been to a convention or been to a

951
00:39:38,259 --> 00:39:36,470
skeptics in the pub but there are

952
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:38,269
skeptical groups behind those doing a

953
00:39:43,630 --> 00:39:41,210
lot of the organizing and various admin

954
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:43,640
type issues so I thought it'd been

955
00:39:47,620 --> 00:39:44,930
interesting to look at the history of

956
00:39:52,180 --> 00:39:47,630
those groups and this is an article out

957
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:52,190
of the skeptic December 2017 which is

958
00:40:04,120 --> 00:39:55,249
volume 37 number 4 and you can find that

959
00:40:11,979 --> 00:40:04,130
on our website it's called sharing

960
00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:11,989
the burden Wikipedia lists skeptical

961
00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:14,470
organizations in 24 different countries

962
00:40:20,739 --> 00:40:18,440
the u.s. skeptic magazine has them in 33

963
00:40:24,339 --> 00:40:20,749
and the committee for scientific inquiry

964
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,349
lists 38 and yet there are more than

965
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:26,960
that these lists often include skeptics

966
00:40:31,299 --> 00:40:29,839
in the pub groups but not all and likely

967
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:31,309
miss out on a number of those more

968
00:40:36,099 --> 00:40:32,930
active groups that are working away

969
00:40:38,049 --> 00:40:36,109
often small and obviously unheralded in

970
00:40:40,210 --> 00:40:38,059
their far-flung corners of the world and

971
00:40:43,870 --> 00:40:40,220
there are some on the lists that no

972
00:40:46,690 --> 00:40:43,880
longer exist such as the situation with

973
00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:46,700
sceptical organizations while they share

974
00:40:50,229 --> 00:40:48,470
the same priorities and philosophy of

975
00:40:52,979 --> 00:40:50,239
critical thinking and science-based

976
00:40:54,970 --> 00:40:52,989
evidence they come and they go

977
00:40:56,740 --> 00:40:54,980
generally according to the whims and

978
00:40:58,480 --> 00:40:56,750
changes of the people usually Valen

979
00:41:01,110 --> 00:40:58,490
years who take up the burden of

980
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:01,120
management at an individual level

981
00:41:05,530 --> 00:41:03,290
scientific skepticism has been around

982
00:41:08,260 --> 00:41:05,540
for as long as there has been pseudo

983
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:08,270
scientific and paranormal claims and the

984
00:41:13,090 --> 00:41:11,690
ways and inclinations to assess them but

985
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:13,100
skeptical organizations are a more

986
00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:15,200
recent phenomenon stretching back into

987
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:18,260
the end of the 19th century the first is

988
00:41:23,470 --> 00:41:21,410
probably the Dutch organization which I

989
00:41:25,660 --> 00:41:23,480
won't try pronounce but it's the

990
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:25,670
Association against quackery or society

991
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:27,860
against quackery this was set up to

992
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:29,690
investigate claims made for alternative

993
00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:32,960
medicine and is as the name says opposed

994
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:35,870
to quackery it was founded in 1881

995
00:41:40,450 --> 00:41:38,810
has published its magazine which I won't

996
00:41:41,860 --> 00:41:40,460
pronounce Dutch magazine against

997
00:41:45,250 --> 00:41:41,870
quackery ever since

998
00:41:48,460 --> 00:41:45,260
in 2003 he began handing out its version

999
00:41:50,620 --> 00:41:48,470
of the bed spoon the mr. tacker Doris or

1000
00:41:53,050 --> 00:41:50,630
a story I copy now sees me never mind

1001
00:41:55,420 --> 00:41:53,060
which translates roughly as master

1002
00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:55,430
charlatan which was awarded to a

1003
00:41:59,290 --> 00:41:57,350
promoter of quackery rather than the

1004
00:42:01,300 --> 00:41:59,300
quacks themselves which often means TV

1005
00:42:03,820 --> 00:42:01,310
radio and the press as well as

1006
00:42:05,950 --> 00:42:03,830
universities which hosts quack practices

1007
00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:05,960
one year after the conveniently

1008
00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:09,080
abbreviated VT DK was formed another

1009
00:42:12,820 --> 00:42:11,750
organization was set up in the UK and

1010
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:12,830
well it doesn't sound particularly

1011
00:42:17,860 --> 00:42:14,690
skeptical it certainly had that attitude

1012
00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:17,870
in its original approach the Society for

1013
00:42:23,980 --> 00:42:21,830
psychical research in 1882 spiritualism

1014
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:23,990
was particularly popular and this became

1015
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:27,170
a key plank of the SPRs activities its

1016
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:29,450
stated purpose is to understand events

1017
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:31,730
and abilities commonly described as

1018
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:34,850
psychic or paranormal and to quote the

1019
00:42:39,580 --> 00:42:36,770
aim of the society will be to approach

1020
00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:39,590
these various problems without prejudice

1021
00:42:44,650 --> 00:42:42,320
or prepossession of any kind and in the

1022
00:42:47,950 --> 00:42:44,660
same spirit of exact and unimpassioned

1023
00:42:50,350 --> 00:42:47,960
inquiry which has enabled science to

1024
00:42:53,890 --> 00:42:50,360
solve so many problems once not less

1025
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:53,900
obscure nor less hotly debated it

1026
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:56,210
describes itself as the first society to

1027
00:43:01,150 --> 00:42:58,370
conduct organised scholarly research

1028
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:01,160
into human experiences that challenge

1029
00:43:06,010 --> 00:43:03,290
contemporary scientific models and

1030
00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:06,020
describes how its members were again

1031
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,630
quote fired by scientific ideals

1032
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:10,640
determined not to be

1033
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:13,249
misled by tricks illusions and wishful

1034
00:43:18,099 --> 00:43:15,710
thinking and quickly learn to spot fake

1035
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:18,109
mediums sitting through endless dolls

1036
00:43:23,170 --> 00:43:20,089
seances in the pursuit of scientific

1037
00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:23,180
explanation its Journal of the Society

1038
00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:25,369
for psychical research has been

1039
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:28,609
published quarterly since 1884 as well

1040
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:31,130
as the magazine paranormal review which

1041
00:43:34,779 --> 00:43:32,569
has been going for just over 20 years

1042
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:34,789
and is directed at a more general

1043
00:43:40,479 --> 00:43:38,720
audience SPRs current activities cover

1044
00:43:44,769 --> 00:43:40,489
much as they did when first launched

1045
00:43:47,650 --> 00:43:44,779
ghosts psychics ESP reincarnation in

1046
00:43:49,539 --> 00:43:47,660
1885 just a few years after the UK

1047
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:49,549
organization was formed the American

1048
00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:51,710
Society for psychical research was

1049
00:43:56,739 --> 00:43:53,839
launched inspired and encouraged by that

1050
00:43:59,049 --> 00:43:56,749
UK version it still exists and it's

1051
00:44:00,999 --> 00:43:59,059
carried aim is to investigate quote the

1052
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:01,009
far-reaching scientific and spiritual

1053
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:03,170
questions raised by the mysteries of

1054
00:44:09,309 --> 00:44:06,170
consciousness there was a split in its

1055
00:44:12,279 --> 00:44:09,319
membership in the 1920s over the ASPR

1056
00:44:15,759 --> 00:44:12,289
support for a purported medium Margery

1057
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:15,769
also known as mean ik random some filthy

1058
00:44:20,620 --> 00:44:18,319
ASPR was suppressing negative criticism

1059
00:44:23,529 --> 00:44:20,630
of Kramden and the Boston Society for

1060
00:44:27,309 --> 00:44:23,539
psychical research was formed in 1926 in

1061
00:44:29,470 --> 00:44:27,319
opposition among the bsp ARS members was

1062
00:44:31,930 --> 00:44:29,480
JB Rhine who coined the term

1063
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:31,940
extrasensory perception in the book of

1064
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:34,690
that name published in 1934 the

1065
00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:36,950
Australian Institute of Paris

1066
00:44:42,249 --> 00:44:39,230
psychological research was founded in

1067
00:44:44,489 --> 00:44:42,259
1977 and still publishes a half-yearly

1068
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:44,499
magazine and newsletter

1069
00:44:49,089 --> 00:44:47,210
so these 19th and early 20th century

1070
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,099
organizations were largely focused on

1071
00:44:54,549 --> 00:44:51,440
specific areas quack medicine in the

1072
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:54,559
case of VT DK and psychic phenomena for

1073
00:44:58,720 --> 00:44:56,410
the various psychical research groups

1074
00:45:01,390 --> 00:44:58,730
the broad ranking skeptical movement

1075
00:45:04,569 --> 00:45:01,400
really only kicked off after the Second

1076
00:45:06,789 --> 00:45:04,579
World War the first sceptical

1077
00:45:09,609 --> 00:45:06,799
organization as we know them today was

1078
00:45:12,849 --> 00:45:09,619
commit a para in Belgium this was

1079
00:45:15,579 --> 00:45:12,859
founded in 1949 under the name here we

1080
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:15,589
go bear with me commit a bills pull up

1081
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:17,930
your investigation scientific they

1082
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:21,650
phenomen a reputation or mode you can

1083
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:23,119
work that one out which is

1084
00:45:27,650 --> 00:45:24,570
understandably shortened to its

1085
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:27,660
entitled in 2014 thank you very much the

1086
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:29,820
group's motto is do not deny anything a

1087
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:32,430
priori do not confirm anything without

1088
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,010
proof like many current skeptical

1089
00:45:39,170 --> 00:45:36,960
organizations its remit covers a broad

1090
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,180
range of subjects including the staples

1091
00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:41,040
of skeptical discussion such as

1092
00:45:45,290 --> 00:45:42,990
homeopathy herbal medicine acupuncture

1093
00:45:47,210 --> 00:45:45,300
astrology graphology spiritualism

1094
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:47,220
psychics gurus in the usual range of

1095
00:45:51,830 --> 00:45:50,160
paranormal phenomena the next sceptical

1096
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:51,840
group was the French Association for

1097
00:45:57,290 --> 00:45:54,810
scientific information started in 1968

1098
00:46:01,340 --> 00:45:57,300
still active in publishing its magazine

1099
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:01,350
CEOs as pseudoscience but it is the

1100
00:46:06,380 --> 00:46:04,890
Belgian group which it is and was the

1101
00:46:09,590 --> 00:46:06,390
inspiration for the American philosopher

1102
00:46:12,530 --> 00:46:09,600
Paul Kurtz who along with James Randi

1103
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:12,540
Martin Gardner and Ray Hyman founded the

1104
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:13,770
committee for the scientific

1105
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:15,570
investigation of claims with the

1106
00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:18,240
paranormal psychic in the United States

1107
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:22,440
in 1976 as an aside everyone hated the

1108
00:46:27,070 --> 00:46:24,510
term psycho but they'd already printed

1109
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,080
up the letterhead I'm told

1110
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:29,520
and while the belgian group may be seen

1111
00:46:33,710 --> 00:46:31,290
as the progenitor of the growth of

1112
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:33,720
skeptical organizations psychic now

1113
00:46:38,300 --> 00:46:35,310
shortened to commit even skeptical

1114
00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:38,310
inquiry CSI he's seen as the

1115
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:39,990
grandparents of the international

1116
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,090
skeptical movement in fact for a long

1117
00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:44,160
time and held a position as formal

1118
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:46,140
parent of a range of skeptical

1119
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:49,010
affiliates including Australian skeptics

1120
00:46:55,220 --> 00:46:51,450
this formal relationship was terminated

1121
00:46:58,430 --> 00:46:55,230
following a court case in 1986 between a

1122
00:47:01,070 --> 00:46:58,440
psychic gareth Pendragon and the hawaii

1123
00:47:03,710 --> 00:47:01,080
skeptics the psychic being named in the

1124
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:03,720
suit he was ultimately settled in

1125
00:47:07,820 --> 00:47:06,180
cyclops favor but it undoubtedly cost

1126
00:47:10,100 --> 00:47:07,830
the committee considerable time and

1127
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,110
money and psychic distance itself

1128
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:12,240
somewhat from the local groups and no

1129
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:15,290
longer referred to them as affiliates

1130
00:47:21,980 --> 00:47:18,720
Cyclops magazine the zetetic was first

1131
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:21,990
published in 1976 he was soon renamed

1132
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:24,450
the skeptical Inquirer and if he's still

1133
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:28,020
published under that title today in 2015

1134
00:47:33,730 --> 00:47:30,540
CSI merged with the Center for inquiry

1135
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:33,740
to become one of the latter's programs

1136
00:47:38,430 --> 00:47:36,210
now putting aside a number of primarily

1137
00:47:40,349 --> 00:47:38,440
rationalist and humanist organization

1138
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:40,359
which have been very prevalent in India

1139
00:47:45,630 --> 00:47:43,089
for many years the next sceptical group

1140
00:47:47,819 --> 00:47:45,640
was Australian skeptics formed in 1980

1141
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:47,829
making it the second oldest English

1142
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:51,130
language group the skeptic magazine is

1143
00:47:54,329 --> 00:47:52,930
now into its well according to the

1144
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:54,339
article the 37th but we're actually

1145
00:47:59,640 --> 00:47:57,490
heading into the 39th year making that

1146
00:48:02,640 --> 00:47:59,650
to the second oldest English language

1147
00:48:04,589 --> 00:48:02,650
sceptical publication unusual for

1148
00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:04,599
skeptical groups Australian skeptics is

1149
00:48:09,140 --> 00:48:06,790
actually a notional conglomerate of a

1150
00:48:11,579 --> 00:48:09,150
variety of initially state-based groups

1151
00:48:13,319 --> 00:48:11,589
followed later by a number of regional

1152
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:13,329
groups and then a bevy of skeptics in

1153
00:48:16,859 --> 00:48:15,280
the pubs all of these are run

1154
00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:16,869
independently although the

1155
00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:19,240
responsibility for the magazine and more

1156
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:21,460
generic national issues lies with the

1157
00:48:25,620 --> 00:48:23,290
New South Wales based Australian

1158
00:48:28,260 --> 00:48:25,630
skeptics Inc which acts as an umbrella

1159
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:28,270
organization including offering support

1160
00:48:31,980 --> 00:48:29,730
and grants to other groups and

1161
00:48:35,069 --> 00:48:31,990
individuals and that's the one that I'm

1162
00:48:36,599 --> 00:48:35,079
the executive officer for the various

1163
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:36,609
groups host the annual convention on a

1164
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:40,089
rotating basis 2017 was in Sydney and

1165
00:48:46,290 --> 00:48:43,170
that was the 33rd consecutive one the

1166
00:48:48,569 --> 00:48:46,300
2019 convention was held in Melbourne in

1167
00:48:52,109 --> 00:48:48,579
December and that was the 35th

1168
00:48:53,940 --> 00:48:52,119
consecutive convention in Australia as

1169
00:48:56,190 --> 00:48:53,950
far as we can tell no other skeptical

1170
00:48:59,220 --> 00:48:56,200
group has that continuity of major

1171
00:49:00,660 --> 00:48:59,230
events well some of those state and

1172
00:49:02,579 --> 00:49:00,670
regional groups are largely inactive

1173
00:49:05,370 --> 00:49:02,589
with some skeptics in the pub groups

1174
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:05,380
taking up the mantle the United cross

1175
00:49:10,170 --> 00:49:06,970
group structure in Australia is

1176
00:49:12,809 --> 00:49:10,180
apparently unique other skeptical groups

1177
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:12,819
were formed in Sweden in 1982 New

1178
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:15,609
Zealand and Spain 86 Finland in the

1179
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:18,310
Netherlands 87 Germany and Italy 89

1180
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:22,240
Japan 91 and many more since curiously

1181
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:24,490
in the UK it was the magazine that

1182
00:49:30,690 --> 00:49:27,730
preceded the organisation the skeptic

1183
00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:30,700
was first published in 1987 one of many

1184
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:33,720
magazines with the titled is sceptical

1185
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,880
that we were first and was followed in

1186
00:49:41,370 --> 00:49:39,280
1997 by the Association for skeptical

1187
00:49:44,550 --> 00:49:41,380
inquiry which is the closest thing to a

1188
00:49:46,140 --> 00:49:44,560
national body in the UK in 1994 the

1189
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:46,150
European Council of sceptical

1190
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:48,170
organisations was formed

1191
00:49:52,540 --> 00:49:50,390
this is an umbrella organization based

1192
00:49:56,700 --> 00:49:52,550
in Germany which aims to coordinate

1193
00:49:58,930 --> 00:49:56,710
activities of 24 European organizations

1194
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:58,940
overall the movement for skeptical

1195
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:00,800
organizations is strong with new

1196
00:50:05,830 --> 00:50:02,930
national regional and local groups being

1197
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:05,840
formed every year and while some fall by

1198
00:50:09,970 --> 00:50:07,370
the wayside and magazines cease

1199
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:09,980
publication like the UK one there has

1200
00:50:13,770 --> 00:50:11,930
never been a time in which sceptical

1201
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:13,780
organizations have been as active and

1202
00:50:23,740 --> 00:50:22,160
activist as they are now there was the

1203
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:23,750
article sharing the burden from the

1204
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:26,480
skeptic December 2017 which you can

1205
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:28,490
download off the skeptics website for

1206
00:50:57,970 --> 00:50:54,740
free like watch your guide to quackery

1207
00:51:01,480 --> 00:50:57,980
health fraud operated by Stephen Barrett

1208
00:51:03,490 --> 00:51:01,490
MD quack watch is now an international

1209
00:51:06,340 --> 00:51:03,500
network of people who are concerned

1210
00:51:09,850 --> 00:51:06,350
about health-related frauds myths fads

1211
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:09,860
fallacies and misconduct its primary

1212
00:51:14,830 --> 00:51:12,410
focus is on quackery related information

1213
00:51:19,330 --> 00:51:14,840
that is difficult or impossible to get

1214
00:51:22,810 --> 00:51:19,340
elsewhere articles include quackery how

1215
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:22,820
should it be defined how it sells 26

1216
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:25,730
ways to spot it how it harms cancer

1217
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:28,850
patients and much more

1218
00:51:50,319 --> 00:51:32,370
[Music]

1219
00:51:54,109 --> 00:51:52,519
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1220
00:51:55,819 --> 00:51:54,119
on the crowd is still going wild and

1221
00:51:57,469 --> 00:51:55,829
Mark and Susan gave a great talk

1222
00:51:58,880 --> 00:51:57,479
actually I'm cheating a little bit we're

1223
00:52:00,109 --> 00:51:58,890
still waiting for it but we thought we'd

1224
00:52:02,989 --> 00:52:00,119
take this one to the end of the show

1225
00:52:04,669 --> 00:52:02,999
don't look don't let them pick behind

1226
00:52:07,099 --> 00:52:04,679
the kimono they can't look under the

1227
00:52:08,509 --> 00:52:07,109
kimono Richard and see how it works all

1228
00:52:10,969 --> 00:52:08,519
right thank you for listening to this

1229
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:10,979
getting well mark and Susan were great

1230
00:52:15,439 --> 00:52:13,410
tonight they certainly were and we were

1231
00:52:16,909 --> 00:52:15,449
driving back from Melbourne just having

1232
00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:16,919
quit listen to some of the interviews

1233
00:52:19,279 --> 00:52:17,910
you're going to be hearing over next

1234
00:52:22,099 --> 00:52:19,289
couple of weeks and we've done between

1235
00:52:23,539 --> 00:52:22,109
70 and 80 that are that are quite good

1236
00:52:25,249 --> 00:52:23,549
and usable so you're gonna be hearing

1237
00:52:26,989 --> 00:52:25,259
them from awhile and they'll be as fresh

1238
00:52:29,449 --> 00:52:26,999
as a daisy yeah well you had a

1239
00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:29,459
smattering a sample today on today's

1240
00:52:32,809 --> 00:52:31,049
show earlier on at the meet-and-greet

1241
00:52:35,689 --> 00:52:32,819
but there's more of that to come and

1242
00:52:37,429 --> 00:52:35,699
lots and lots and lots and lots and

1243
00:52:40,279 --> 00:52:37,439
thank you to the patrons that helped

1244
00:52:42,469 --> 00:52:40,289
make the sceptic zone go oh yes thank

1245
00:52:44,209 --> 00:52:42,479
you very much enter the new patreon ah

1246
00:52:45,949 --> 00:52:44,219
bit just in the last couple of weeks

1247
00:52:47,959 --> 00:52:45,959
pick up some more thank you much

1248
00:52:49,729 --> 00:52:47,969
appreciated and I've got a skeptic who

1249
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:49,739
joined as a planet Maynard patron and he

1250
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:52,169
sent me a photo javis cat dressed as a

1251
00:52:58,579 --> 00:52:55,890
Mexican wrestler no joke what makes a

1252
00:53:00,229 --> 00:52:58,589
good wrestler cat it's true it's true

1253
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:00,239
it's up on the bunga bunga Facebook page

1254
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:02,579
but yeah it's true so you have quite

1255
00:53:06,979 --> 00:53:04,650
wild listeners Richard I do I do and we

1256
00:53:09,259 --> 00:53:06,989
can check out your podcast at Maynard

1257
00:53:10,909 --> 00:53:09,269
calm day you that's the one folks well

1258
00:53:12,649 --> 00:53:10,919
again thank you for listening to the

1259
00:53:15,429 --> 00:53:12,659
show I think that's enough form from us

1260
00:53:19,009 --> 00:53:15,439
we're going to wind down now and well

1261
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:19,019
for now signing off from the Occidental

1262
00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:19,559
hotel

1263
00:53:31,650 --> 00:53:27,970
you've been listening to the skeptic

1264
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:31,660
zone podcast please visit our website at

1265
00:53:39,339 --> 00:53:36,650
WWDC be with show notes contacts and to

1266
00:53:43,089 --> 00:53:39,349
access the bat catalog of episodes going

1267
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:43,099
back to 2008 you can follow the skeptic

1268
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:45,910
zone podcast on twitter at skeptic zone

1269
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:48,650
visit our facebook page or leave a

1270
00:53:52,870 --> 00:53:50,170
review on itunes

1271
00:53:56,229 --> 00:53:52,880
you can also support the skeptic zone

1272
00:53:59,650 --> 00:53:56,239
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone

1273
00:54:01,359 --> 00:53:59,660
podcast is an independent production the

1274
00:54:03,489 --> 00:54:01,369
views and opinions expressed on the

1275
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:03,499
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1276
00:54:07,620 --> 00:54:05,839
of Australian skeptics or any other